Will I be miserable in my job as well? Those were just things I liked to do. For some reason, in healthcare, when 1 in 5 graduates can’t find a job, it gets reported whereas for engineers, even though millions have historically left engineering for other careers in business, finance, health care, etc, there’s always a so-called ‘shortage’ of scientists and engineers out there. After you get an engineering degree enroll to get a MBA as soon as you can. Most skilled blue collar jobs pay equal to or more than most engineering jobs. You see, one can work as an engineer into one’s forties and still be a wage slave. People retire at different time. Since I don’t want to go the technical track, and I don’t want to be a manager, either, I’m at a dead end. We have an Optical Engineering program at my school that isn't ABET acredited. I was also thinking about getting an MBA a little down the road, but I’ve heard the value of those is decreasing. They do help with tuition reimbursement, too. I choose what projects to work on and let the market decide what my time is worth. It is a bad financial decision to leave. I am not trying to be negative – this is simply a survival strategy. Even if it covers 50% of your expenses, it will help a ton. The first 7-8 years at Intel was great for me. Think about Bell Labs (a.k.a Lucent Technologies) prior to 1995, where they were dubbed the ‘best industrial R&D center outside of a being at a prestigious national lab’, and then a decade later … where 70% were right-sized by layouts and then, reorganized (plus added layoffs) by Alcatel. I still love engineering things, but I have hated actually working as an engineer for at least the past 12 years. He’s ahead of the class in math and reading. Maybe I got out at the right time. Do you have an update? The problem is that one’s higher ups, the so-called MBA-types, have no clue and force arbitrary deadlines and do everything in their power to sideline senior engineering tech leads. It’s a great benefit and most people feels better after taking them. Otherwise, you’re either an MBA type or on the list to be downsized someday in the future. I’ve experienced this over and over. Its funny because I just graduated in December and I would love to do the exact opposite of you. That’s the problem with big companies. There have been some stressful times in my career but really they were self generated due to fear of job loss or pointless ambition. I feel so similar as a former ME and now stay-at-home dad. Also, a music degree made me a better engineer as music develops the mind. And even if you love what you do and don’t mind sacrificing your personal life for the work, remember SOME FAT CAT UPSTAIRS IS MAKING UNGODLY AMOUNTS OF MONEY OFF YOUR FREE LABOR! You might be able to adapt better than I did, you never know. Working in big companies since graduation, I am now at the point in career where I feel stuck with no progress in sight, technical or managerial, and all I am doing is same stuff over and over again, with incompetent people being promoted ahead of guys who do the work in the office. I know this post is over a year old, but just wondering what you ended up doing. Don’t forget to check out the comments to see more diverse views. Now I’m 4 years out of employment, perhaps 10 years out of any real technical work. Many earn $110K and that’s on salary. I’m not a senior engineer (about 6 years in), but I definitely can see what you are saying regarding individual contributers at the senior level having trouble staying in the field. The early years in my career were tough as it was hard to find a job I enjoyed, but after four career switches (different companies, and different positions in engineering), I think I am in a pretty good place. It’s so interesting to learn more about your background, Joe! College is a significant investment that comes with the hope of a better, richer life. Good luck! A better paycheck is great motivation to climb the corporate ladder, but if it's the only reason you're even thinking about taking the job, turn it down — assuming the money isn't … Thanks for sharing. On most days I wish I could be doing something else. I liked it because it was all about logic. 4. I’ve heard from engineers to only do it if you actually enjoy the work you are doing at least to some degree. Well, my question is about finances. UCSF medical center spearheaded that movement, several years ago. At the end of the article, there are links to the one and two years update. It’s not worth the money to stay in a job that you hate for the paycheck unless you really need it. They taught it to us! All engineers ultimately in their senior years are heavily encouraged to distance themselves from the technical aspect and are pushed into people or systems managerial positions. But then again, I’m just a “new” senior engineer, so we’ll see what I’ll say after a few years! Luckily, we have a couple of years worth of money we can siphon off of our IRA’s, but at 51, do I really want to do that? I just have no desire to do that. Also try to find different ways to make extra money on the side if possible. It’s good that you got out of there. I was a bit burned out when I was a student too. It's not about being interested in optimizing chemical flow, it's about being interested in solving problems and improving the world around you. I really feel like I've been tricked into engineering, so I'm here to warn some off that think majoring in engineering is a good idea. You can try it for a couple of years and see how it works out. I want to switch my line but still puzzled as to where. If you can’t get a C, then might as well take the time off to figure out what to do next. Good luck! I’m currently finishing up some research under a professor while looking for my first real engineering job and at this point in my life, I feel like I’m having another little crisis. Hopefully, it will continue for a long time. Nowadays everything is depending on technology. Good luck with changing your career. You already had one scary episode and you don’t want to repeat that. But the truth and bottom line is I don’t feel fulfilled. Engineers need to plan for early retirement, *Sign up for a free account at Personal Capital, Sign up for a free account at CrowdStreet, Why engineers should plan for an early retirement, How much it costs to retire comfortably in Thailand, Our Real Estate Crowdfunding Investment Performance, 3 Reasons Why I Don’t Have a New Car Fund, Travel Hacking 2019: Chiang Mai, Hanoi, and Narita, https://www.ted.com/talks/mark_applebaum_the_mad_scientist_of_music/discussion. A family and children are not conducive to 12 hour days and going into the office 7 days a week. What now? New Process Gear (GM/Chrysler transmissions) is 100% gone. Many of my friends have troubles too, but it’s much easier if you are in the right area. Several promotions and with rare exception that money goes right to the mortgage, which is within a year from payoff. I still like to believe people can always transition their skill sets too but its not for everyone and those that love technicality will eventually feel intellectually suppressed. How do you keep a positive outlook to take you to self employment eventually. I have a couple other friends that have been with the company for 10-15 years and are plenty happy with their jobs. The first 7 years where challenging and rewarding. As you’ve mentiond in your other posts, staying out of debt will really help! Now I don’t even like the technical part of the job. The answers for Joe I believe is yes. Working part time is a great way to have the best of both worlds. Even so, it would mean 60 to 80 hour weeks, so I am not sure I want that, but like I said, it probably will not happen. One of the engineers I worked with that stumbled into work late after drinking the night before has turned things around. Not at all. Very interesting blog here. So the guilt I would have from leaving the field of engineering has been holding me. I know some people who still like their job after 25 years. I am the only America in my group, one of the few who design. Most companies expect senior personnel to engage in quasi-managerial activities to some extent, but Intel codifies this explicitly in upper grade level expectations at a high level (although this usually isn’t obvious to outsiders based upon published job descriptions). Be prepared for the career to lose its luster eventually so that you can change careers or retire without drama. Problem is what the tech industry now considers “senior” can be just 10 years of experience, which at Intel meant youngish engineers spending much of their time on these quasi-managerial tasks, instead of the engineering for which they were hired. At least you gave it a shot, right? That means anyone can replace you (like he wrote), sooner or later the inventions will come, if not from you, then from another. A handful of the line managers were foreign born. Arizona also has many defense and non-defense jobs. By the end of the 90’s I had been through four companies. Your perception of engineering career is that of a typical “Employee Engineer” who is just receiving his fat pay cheques, perks and bonuses etc — with such poor perception you might have as well worked for the public sector, an administrative boring job with a government agency – counting your days to your publicly funded government pension plan. It’s a good alternative if engineering doesn’t work out. I log in almost every day to check on our accounts. If I’m 65 and in this same situation, you probably wouldn’t think twice about the whole retirement thing. Right now, due to the pharmacist glut, ~20% can’t get jobs after graduation. I probably should have left 5 years earlier to join a small company. A while back, I received an email from a reader who is going back to school for an engineering degree. I think it’s good to change career too. Although it was much better than being laid off and he’s good at it, I think most people don’t realize staying in a technical role forever is not always possible, especially once you salary gets in the 6 figure range. It doesn't always work out that way. Looking forward to seeing you next week. Engineers left because they wanted to be engineers, not managers. I found this article through a google of “good paying jobs for former engineers.”, I studied EE. The market is way kinder to people who automate work than people who get their work automated, so I think this will prove to be a good decision. I just turned 40, but I’m not in a place to get out yet. I have been working too in an IT company for past 2 years 10 months..yes not long time as yours..but i had started to feel the shiver 1 year back itself. Now that my son is 2, I have noticed I don’t know the latest and greatest applications that are being used in production, learning about security vulnerabilities days after they come out rather than being a first adopter, etc. However, continue to hone your love for music ( I love music too but maybe in a different way) and try to be more creative. It’s just too hard to let go. I love engineering and the different aspects of working on a team. But I think you’re right though, I probably would’ve produced mediocre results at best. I’ll only work on what I want to from now on and will never go back to working for a corporation. Hi Sheldon! Yeap. And yes, I get insurance, but our new Affordable Health program and my young age make that less of a concern. I liked the fact that the paper was delivered a couple of Why College Isn't Worth It Essay hours before my deadline. He is an engineer and I am in accounting/finance. In short, you will be working twice as hard if not more, for worse grades, and for about, key word, the same starting pay. That’s why I’m hesitant to advise my kid to go into tech. Prior to that, I only have watched shows on TV. Trapped by sabbatical? I have been doing a lot of soul searching about this subject this past week and I feel like this is the best thing for me mentally right now. I used to be a tax consultant. These are smart guys, but become victims of ageism in some respects. Q. That’s $57k in today’s dollars. “I heard small companies are better overall.”. Good luck finding another EE job. I’ve kinda grown into my current role but I’m mid-30s. They told me I was no longer technically savvy, although there are upper management that are less technical than I am. area both small and large. Eventually, I figured I’d better try something else. That’s what I’ll be graduating in next year and it’s refreshing to get a wise perspective from you on priorities and how it is out there. Good luck! Were you a star in your field and your reputation carried over, or is there some other explanation? This whole gig based engineering thing aerospace is killing the industry. I will be starting school at 21. Why full time senior positions, especially individual contributor roles are not available in this industry? I’m glad to hear you were able to work it out too. Who knows what’s in store from here on out. I couldn’t stand it. The dream was, and still remains, to eventually become financially independent to play music and work on musical gear with my mates of (going on) 10 years. Academic publication isn’t part of every PhD, but many students do have the opportunity to author journal articles or produce other records of their research. When I had the right manager who know what I could do, it was fine. Some people are happy with the corporate life, but it’s not for everyone. There are companies out there that will give you the time you need to live your life but also do engineering in a 40 hr work week. Also, my wife still works. When I wasn’t in front of a monitor, I was attending useless meetings. I know it’s tough, but try anyway. I was convinced I failed Chemistry, but I got a C. If it’s hard for you, it’s probably hard for your classmates too. Govt licensing boards have given them ‘provider’ status whereas a pharmacist is only paid for giving out pills. It’s a different world today for kids with their tablets and smartphones. I have a masters degree in Power Distribution and Control,and still can’t find a proper job. I think rentals are great. I cannot move up the technical ladder because they will want me to lead projects (again) and work insane hours which I want to be done with now that I have 3 kids. The earnings premium for a PhD is 26%. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2011/03/9510/new-ucsf-robotic-pharmacy-aims-improve-patient-safety. I know quite a few senior level people that are very happy with their job. Initially, I planned to stay here in Qatar until my daughter reaches 5 years old with the hope she will be better. I think that is good advice for any career since you won’t be the same person at 40 that you are at 25. What an interesting read. How were you so sure that you would still provide a stable life financially for your family especially when your kid is in college? I just left Intel after 17 years as a design engineer. I think management jobs are better than the slaves doing engineering. Many companies are promoting and advertise that their Power Saver unit are able to save domestic residential power consumption by employing an “active power factor correction” method on the supply line. My new department head was very demanding and I left shortly after that. What enabled you to finally do something about your monotony? As I said, I’m terrible at managing people. The good news is, I really like leading technical things, making presentations, planning, etc., so I hope I’m still able to enjoy my career for years to come! I found making drawings is very boring and time consuming process and killing the fun I’m doing in calculation and analysis . That’s the doctor’s role in the delivery of health care and thus, given the sheer volume of expected diagnosis per day for the regular internal medicine physician, a good PA (technical plus communication skills) is worth a heck of a lot more to a clinic than a mediocre one. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. When I was 48, I quit my engineering job but went back after 2 years off. I’d really appreciate your insight on the matters. I think you are going to be much happier now Joe. Until the last position they sent their house mouse/gossipper in to bother me over five times to apply for a job I did not want. Then, at some point, you will likely be compelled to grow your company so that you can reduce your workload and hire your own engineers to do the execution aspect. The women engineers have it pretty tough when they have kids. They literally “rank” the employees from 1 to xxx in each pay level. hey joe. Hi everyone. That’s right. Good luck! Fun at first but now is just a drag… I am obsessed with early retirement. Good luck! I got across your blog because after 1.5yrs of being retired I am contemplating on returning to the work force but don’t want an engineering career in the same industry. and that’s back in the mid 90’s when there was a shortage of engineers, much unlike today. IMO, it’s not that much different. That could be partly due to the fact that if they stick it out seven years, they get a two month paid vacation. This is why I have no hope for work, outside of professions which require a licensing strategy, ala electrician or physician assistant. But as the cost of education increases faster than inflation, people are beginning to question how they spend their education dollars. Unfortunately, a lot of factors really turned me against it. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the engineering community. . I just find it interesting that whenever I meet a woman who leaves the workplace to stay home with the kids, even if they have done all the prior prep like you did (saving her income, making sure they could make it on one, building passive income to help out, etc. We solve problems. I have wasted enough of my life. That’s horrible! Money Isn't Everything: When It's Worth Taking On $50,000 Or More In Student Debt. Anyways I just scrolled past the comments so sorry if I re-ask a question but I was wondering if your could’ve redone your education and major in something different what would it be. Unfortunately the Korean military system has no interest in giving people with a diploma a chance to stay on course. I believe you are near the finish line. You will discover that salary does in fact plateau and your value does not go up and up as you get older and more experienced. Rats: follow up. I’m a software engineer and only a few years out of college. Good luck with the job search. Can you handle another 5 or 10 years of this stress? I majored in Electrical Engineering at Purdue and worked for Intel as a Process Engineer for about 5 years. I’m also ECE. Cutthroat culture, with dinosaur hardass management. also, i’d say that the junior year is the hardest academically, if that helps. system. What used to be a guarantee of safety and stability has recently turned … Started as a technician and worked my way through school completing a bachelors and masters degree (12 years). Business analysis? All of their problems are my problems…not to mention helping them through mentoring and listening to each of their specific issues. Good luck. I remember during my children’s college orientation the Chancellor said that you should be prepared for multiple careers. God bless! I don’t believe in goal-setting. I am planning to continue growing my rentals but I want a new challenge in life. Not only did I love the work I did but I felt a strong sense of belonging and doing good. Okay, this isn’t totally related, but I’ve been wanting to ask this question ever since I first came across your blog a few months ago. If you don’t make it in 15 years, then get out and find something else to do. I don’t know what my job as an engineering would be like, but it doesn’t seems like studying 6 more years in grad school and doing research for the rest of my life under tremendous pressure would be the course to bet on. That’s creativity and fun, but difficult to obtain as soon as management tries to stearing you. She’s planning to retire soon, though. The knowledge I get is the knowledge I take with me. They can be generalists and make a living. 2. I too am an engineer and have undergone a similar transformation as I’ve progressed throughout my career. Here are the main reasons (and believe me, there are many more) you should NOT choose a major in engineering. I spent a ton of time with our son when he was young. Its actually more technical than people realize with building codes and construction drawings. This is truly income for dummies. So even though I was able to get the technical stuff done, I was penalized because I wasn’t the most extroverted or well connected person during focal. It’s more difficult in hardware engineering because it’s more specialized. Hahaha, that is pretty funny. Lots of companies (at least in my field of software engineering) say there is a career path for engineers that don’t want to go into management. Well-done, writer!! Having worked for eight tech companies from very small to very large, concur that Intel was one of the worst, bottom of the barrel. * In larger companies, the demotivating performance evaluations where only X amount of the workers are allowed to get an “outstanding” rating, even if the entire team goes above and beyond the call of duty. My actual salary after more than 3 years experience is around 30k$ before taxes thats makes around 18k$ after taxes. It still doesn’t make me retired. As of now, I’ve been with my company for ten years. I enjoyed being an engineer, but I quit my job in 2012 to become a stay-at-home dad/blogger. Once upon a time I was naive and felt a loyalty to an employer, but now I know the truth; your employment only represents a credit/debit on a balance sheet and you are expendable. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. The person it takes to excel in the technical side and in the management side of things is a rare person indeed. Inept managers, overtly demanding obligations, and just the general bull shit laden corporate atmosphere probably kills the interest for all but the most hardcore geeks out there. In my experience, engineering sucks because as soon as the economy slows or the company isn’t doing well, the first thing that companies do is stop all new product development and lay off the designers and engineers. I am looking to get out of engineering and I will be another statistic of a female who reached the 5 uear milestone. It’s the stupidest way you can possibly generate income! Most companies hire young ones because the interviewers are much more younger than you are and mostly on their early 30s. What about accountants – are they asked about obscure tax laws? It was great fun in the beginning, but I wasn’t able to evolve to fit the job expectation. It is scary to leave $100k+ job and start from scratch……. The place is very disorganized with very limited systems and no training..and the person that used to do the failure analysis job is only minimally interested in helping..he is just probably happy to be not the responsible party anymore… So, my husband, who is 50 and all ready pretty shaken from the last layoff last year, has very low morale; very high stress; and the said he just feels pretty numb at this point, but can’t handle the stress much longer. Ernie…Again this comes back to the definition of what each individual understands as “retirement.” As I mentioned above in an observation to a post, retirement for me means “freedom of choice.” After 20 years of retirement, I love having all of the choices in my life, sometimes trading seasonal work for money to improve our cash flow or just being challenged by a source outside of my daily routine. I earn $60k and work 60 hours a week (this isn’t including travel and all that crap). Engineering is a great field to get into. Stay well, everyone. Some people seems to do very well as an engineer. I’m admittedly in a difficult situation and I hope you have something to say about this with your wisdom and experiences in the field of engineering. One guy from Analog Devices said he is enjoying to come into the company still in his 70s for a day a week to do some funny design and programming, just because he likes it. He has physical issues that have manifested in the last few weeks that are signs that is really bothering him. The paycheck was the only thing that motivated me to go to work. If I’m wrong, I might be looking for a job in a couple years :p. Your points echo what I have been feeling for the last couple of years. My current job is with a big multinational. That’s the beauty of retiring relatively young (50’s for me), lots of choices and new experiences. I do possess some skills such as an aptitude in math and some in sciences, but my motivation and attitude toward engineering I have discovered have not been enough for me to continue pursuing this degree path. I think it was me that changed a lot over the years. But I’ve got money to worry about now, as I did before the degree, and now have the added confusion of having completed a degree concerning material and work I’m apparently quite capable of, but which deviates considerably from the life I envisioned prior to doing the degree. * The feeling of being the “hamster on the wheel” – you keep running to keep the wheel going (constantly learning new technologies to remain relevant and in your job), but you go nowhere (you basically stay where you are career-wise). If you get a chance, I want to hear more about your thoughts on this because I think about this scenario so often and am always wondering “What if I became an engineer?” –> Ray (at) howtoclearyouracne (dot) com. Wondering what do you do for health insurance? The next group, the largest with 50% of the employees, gets from 0% to 1% above inflation. You just need to work a lot at the beginning. Each employee needs to have 3 or 4 coworkers and leads appraise them annually. I have some planning of mainframe to open systems migration of my application, but I hesitate to call it planning because I am getting some new job request every couple of hours that I have to code NOW. It seems like my choices now as a software engineer (in my area) is to go write GUI’s for incredibly boring applications or work in the Web/Front End/Back End cloud, something I’m not all that interested in. If they were given ‘provider’ status, they could consult with patients and earn compensation for it, letting the future machines do the drudgery work of dispensing pills. I’m thinking about returning to an engineering career but I didn’t really gain much in the way of transferable skills at Intel and I’m usually getting screened out by HR for entry level engineering jobs because they say I graduated too long ago. Have you never considered that it might be better to be paid even when you’re not working? Now I’m 32 and looking to start over. Studying engineering was an ordeal. Despite all the automation (think IBM Watson/Deep Mind) in areas like radiology or pathology, someone needs to interface with the patient, on a one-on-one, day-to-day basis. There are applications, essays, forms, tests, transcripts - and you're winding up high school, too. You get to spend a lot of time in the ocean and that sounds like fun. I work at a big tech company as an engineer. These days, I contend with systems and applications that are dated and have much newer and better alternatives, but we have to continue to make the “old stuff” work everyday, and it’s frustrating that I don’t get to learn anything new these days, merely just reworking budgets to get them cheap enough for the higher ups to approve for the quarter, 2 quarters later(usually never ordered).

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